The American Dream Revival Podcast with Hayley & Doug

Ep. 30 The Best and Worst Online Course Ideas (and How to Not Pick a Bad One)

• Hayley & Doug Johnson • Season 1 • Episode 30

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Hey guys! In today's podcast we're covering the NUMBER ONE concern everyone has when it comes to online courses: is my idea a good one?

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but all the time we KNOW what it takes to fix it and so today we want to go through that exact process with you guys.

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Hayley Johnson:

Hey guys, welcome back to the Digital Income family podcast. So today, Doug had the idea of basically talking about the worst online course ideas that we've seen, that we've heard of.

Doug Johnson:

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it, because it's a chance to talk about, you know, mistakes and ideas that people have and stuff that you can learn from. But then also, we want to talk about what's in the good to Yes, like, and we've

Hayley Johnson:

had horrible ideas as well. So I think it's just like a learned skill. And I think a lot of people will be so hyped because they'll feel really passionate about something. But then when push comes to shove, it's, you know, either oversaturated, or they'll find that it's been, you know, obviously done a million times over, or it's not really hitting with their audience, and they just can't sell their online course. So we don't want that to be you guys. Yeah, definitely. So we're gonna go through the worst ideas and how to improve them.

Doug Johnson:

Yeah. But before we jump into it, I actually have a little something for you guys. If you check out the description below. If you're on YouTube, or listening somewhere, I basically I put together a brand new mini course for you guys. And this mini course is all about how you're able to monetize digital products actually, 100k in 12 months, with digital products, it's a mini course, which means you could to go through this video lessons, get to make an account, it's actually really cool experience be able to do if you've never even been been in a course or Baldwin before. So go check it out. It's down in the description below. But let's go ahead and jump into it. So Haley, what happens when sometimes somebody will come to you? Right? And they're like, it could be our neighbors. It could be literally anyone Oh, yeah, like always our friends, like anyone? Yeah, a lot of times it's students, you know, because we're working with students all the time. But people come to us and they're like, I have a really good idea. Yeah. And then what happens

Hayley Johnson:

though, I always agree. Yeah. Like, it's usually like someone in our role. It's obviously our students and stuff. But if it was someone in our own life, like at church, or like, what I don't know, yeah, like a neighbor or not a friend, I tell them straight up. But usually, I'm obviously very encouraging. So are you really do it because the idea that they have is good in theory, like fitness, like, they'll usually just categorize it into like a niche, say, I really want to help people lose weight. And I'm like, That's a great idea. Yeah. But they think it's like something that's never been done into a course. Yeah. And so you have to like, there's, I mean, what do you think like 20 different layers you gotta go through? Yeah,

Doug Johnson:

there's a lot that you have to do to like, make an a figment idea into an idea. But we're just stoked when people actually have an idea. Yeah, right. Because a lot of times the flip side of this, which we'll get into the good parts first, but the flip side, too, is that people will, will think that they don't have an idea or that they have nothing to offer to so there's actually like, two starting points to this. It's like sometimes people think they have really good ideas, and it needs to be niche down or we need to cut to cut into things or at the same time. People don't have ideas, or they feel like they don't have anything to offer to right. They feel like artists thing. Yeah, they feel like they have no expertise, or they have no special skills, or they don't have anything that's like that. So it becomes like, at that point, it's a challenge to try to pull things out of people to Yeah, it's almost

Hayley Johnson:

like they are frozen in time because they cannot progress their business if they don't have this magical winning course idea that is unique to them and that no one's ever done before. Because once you start doing competitor research, which is something we always recommend, we find that 99% of our students and people that we help mentor, they What do you think they just get paralyzed is the word. Yeah, like

Doug Johnson:

analysis paralysis. They

Hayley Johnson:

start like, well, I

Doug Johnson:

can't do any much I can't do any of these ideas. All these things better than me. There's people better than me. Yeah,

Hayley Johnson:

the price is lower that I found like I want to charge 1000 But I find the courses on what are the Udemy 89 like $7

Doug Johnson:

for this? I thought I had a $4,000 course ID and it's like $7

Hayley Johnson:

Yeah. And so yeah, we want to set you guys straight if for any of you that might be thinking those thoughts because they'll i The only reason I didn't think those thoughts when I created my first course teaching people on YouTube is because I saw other YouTubers doing it and I was a YouTuber, but for somebody that is not they already have like this imposter syndrome. Yeah, they've never been on social and they feel like they can't do anything like all these other people have it better. Yeah. And so it's hard. That's like another layer.

Doug Johnson:

Yeah, it definitely is. But we're going to kind of assume that you have and yes, okay, we're gonna we're gonna that would that would be a good another podcast if you'd known what yeah, if you have no idea what you're doing or no experience, you know, I have nothing bubble. Okay, we'll get into that later. But today, let's say you have an idea. Okay. And you're like Doug Haley. I'm going to knock on your door and I want to I want you to verify validate this Yeah. I want you to tell me is this good? Or is this reminds

Hayley Johnson:

you when we did our first Amazon FBA business, we paid for a guy like on a webinar, the first $1,000 we ever spent on for mentoring online mentoring, because it was like horse, but we were like, we paid for it and we won the raffle for him to validate our Amazon FBA deal which is ridiculous.

Doug Johnson:

Okay, it was sorry I started this site we need a slight tangent for a second because I remember specifically like learning about Amazon FBA Right. Like we were trying to find a way to get Haley to stop doing brand deals. And this is an absolute game changer, but it's relevant. Yeah. So we were doing brand deals all the time and like putting out Putting Annabelle in content stuff like that. We were like let's do something else. So we learned about Amazon FBA, Haley was like, Hey, this guy has a webinar that's doing this. Like we should go, we should go watch training. He's got some webinars like it's a training, he's gonna tell us how we can do it. And I was like, What's this MLM seems like 2017 and I was a long time ago. And so he joined the webinar, okay, and he jumps on, he's like, welcome to

Hayley Johnson:

Doug's, like webinar 1012 out of 10 ces sounds

Doug Johnson:

like 100 bajillion percent suspicious when you get home from work or like, and so we're like, sitting there, I swear, you guys, this is relevant. 100% relevant to validation. Okay. And the reason we're so excited about this training, is because in the beginning of the training, he's like, Hey, at the end of this, like, if you enroll or if you join, like during this call, you will get three products reviewed personally by us. Yes. Because

Hayley Johnson:

when you do Amazon FBA, whatever this is a podcast we can do we want we can banter. When you do Amazon FBA, not online courses, you choose one product, yes. And you hope that it's not going to be overtaken by a Chinese supplier, you hope that there's a supply and demand. Yeah, like that's good for you.

Doug Johnson:

It's validated, you hope that it's good. You hope there's demand? People want it? Yes, that people want it. And so the number one thing you could watch from a mentor is choosing the product is getting the product chosen for you? Yes. And so I mean, not to make a long story longer. But we, we've got on there, and it was like you want to purchase everybody when they're awful. No, no, no, not everybody won the raffle. He called out the name. And I remember it because we're trying to put handball asleep or something at the same time. And he and there was like three people that bought because you could see the little dean of people that bought and you know, and we were one of three people. And so it was like, it was so weird, because he was like, and so the winner is and he's like, I think I'm saying this right? And I was like God, you can't butcher Haley. And he was like Haley Haley wrote, like he like couldn't say your last name. And so your maiden name. And so we freaked out, and we won. And then we get we got our products validated. And which was really cool. But

Hayley Johnson:

you can validate your product, whatever, I digress, we don't recommend Amazon FBA for so many reasons. A lot of you guys still ask all the time, but like, no, but tell me don't do what the point

Doug Johnson:

of this was. We went extreme lengths to try to get our product validated. Yeah. You know, and that's what people want was course we want our ideas. Everybody wants validation. It's why you paying for, for thing. Yes, but we're just throwing you guys a bone here. And we're gonna throw it some validation. Yes, that's inherent

Hayley Johnson:

reverence, no matter the business, like, Do I have something that our people are gonna buy? Yeah, you know, yeah.

Doug Johnson:

And really, we're going to talk about lack of validation first, because I like starting off on a funny foot here. Haley, can you tell me a little bit about your like, what, what do you feel like is, is a red flag for like a course or a digital product idea or a business idea?

Hayley Johnson:

The number one red flag, I would say is when people can't clearly define at an eighth grade level, who they help and what they help, man,

Doug Johnson:

I love it. I love it. We should end podcast right there. Like we're done.

Hayley Johnson:

No. And he's like, this is what happens. And I'm real. I promise. I'm trying to be like, listen, we're being construct, because I don't I don't always come off that way. No, I'm just like super blunt. And I'll give it to straight. Alright, so a good example of this happens a lot. We've been doing like coaching calls for the last I don't know, three years. Once it was twice a week now it's like two times a week in a group setting. And so every so often, we'll get a new students, and they will explain to me their course idea. And it'll take them like five minutes, which is a lot of talking and or even like a minute should take like a second.

Doug Johnson:

It should be like less than an elevator pitch. Yeah. Like you

Hayley Johnson:

don't want it to be so short. And we'll get into this as like, I help people lose weight, like who the heck do you help? And how do you do it? And like, what's your unique way of doing it? How can you even make it sound unique? If it's not even unique? You know, we'll get into that. But this is like the opposite. So I would say like, the worst thing you could do is make it so confusing to where if you're like sitting at a dinner table with your friends and family, and our friends or family know nothing really of what we do, they can barely understand what of course is not because they aren't smart, just they literally are in an industry. You know, like they have no clue. It's like like, okay, video trainings, but it's so much more than that, like coaching all this. So if you can explain to your friends and family and they're like, Okay, we kind of get it like we understand clearly actually not we don't kind of get it like we understand it, you could tell it to like your grandma. Yeah. Then you have something. And honestly, it's hard for us still like because ours is a newer age thing. That's the difference. So sometimes you can't always get people to understand but people that understand the industry Yeah, it's

Doug Johnson:

not that you can't get people to understand is that like your outcome is not clearly defined? Yes. Like when you don't have a clear lead, how would you help them how you help them and what you help them with? That's what makes it hard. Like we help people to be able to launch you know, courses and coaching programs like that's what we help people do we help you leverage experience you already have, like, you can get more specific and add things in. But if you're like, Well, I help people to kind of like do this thing and kind of like mimic like, yeah, you know if It's hard to define the outcome that people get, then that's what makes it tough. So sometimes it's like very subjective for instance, yeah.

Hayley Johnson:

So like, for example, someone could say I help you pay off your debt. So they could say I help single mothers pay off their student loan debt within a year by doing this, okay, that would be like a better better offer and not perfect. So I just like, obviously make it up on the fly. But then someone will spin it and I'll be like, okay, Haley, so I'm going to help women they think just putting women or men on the front or mom, they think that's like, good. They're like target audience, you know, which is Yeah, Mom, we hear that a lot. Because my audience but you know, like, they think that that is helping to diversify themselves enough, but it's like that is really just put on there. I don't know for looks like you could help anybody really. But they'll say I help moms. You know, I help them coupon clip, I help them budget at the grocery store. I'll help I'll even out like they're willing to do everything. So they will do everything. But you actually can't be willing to do everything. Because then it looks like you're a jack of all trades and looks like you don't specialize in one specific method. So something that's been an epiphany to us over the last two years not epiphany. We learned it obviously through people but smarter than us. But does that you need a special way of doing the same thing everybody else teaches? Yeah. And so this is gold. Like this advice. It seems like obvious, but could you explain, like what so mean? So like, as far as the example of I help moms pay off student loan debt.

Doug Johnson:

So let's say it's paying off student loan debt. There's like a bajillion ways. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Okay, so

Hayley Johnson:

calling things hocking things on Facebook marketplace, and someone will list like, 25 ways. And

Doug Johnson:

I'm like, Well, yeah, and so you can't list 18 different ways of doing things. Because not everybody wants to learn all 18. But also, you're

Hayley Johnson:

making it sound like it's harder than it is. Yeah, definitely. And they don't want to do all the work. No, they want they want to be like away one simple

Doug Johnson:

thing. Yes. And they want it to sound appealing to them. And it can sound scary to you guys. Because sometimes you'll think like, I need to cover 18 different ways, because then I encompass more people and like, maybe you

Hayley Johnson:

literally Yes, yeah. Or maybe you literally are like this is the way you actually need 25 ways. But that's okay. You just need to lock it behind your core store. Yeah, you know, like you What is it you sell what they want? And you give them what they need? Yes. Correct. So we don't lead with like a ton of mindset stuff. But that is in the program. Because how are you going to succeed in business? If your mind's all messed up? Yeah. So let's

Doug Johnson:

let's take like the bad idea, which is like a halt moms to pay off debt. Okay. And you're like, what, what is that supposed to mean? You can say something that's like, I hope moms that pay off debt by minimalizing their things?

Hayley Johnson:

Because also that's trending. What minimal minimalism Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's always better to capitalize on trend, if you can lock yourself onto something that's fun. And secondly, yeah, but also minimalism seem that appeals to a certain type of person. Yeah. So now you can niche down in a way that can help you grow faster, because all of your content will cater to that one person. There's like social media tips and tricks. But still is the same thing for courses because you need leads, like, anyway, see, I go ahead and minimal minimalist,

Doug Johnson:

but the thing is, is that like, minimalism can mean different things to different people. So you don't have to clearly define what that is. If you've minimalism to you is like, you need to shop less you need to, you know, get groceries, you know, meal prep, and like cut down on the groceries that you spend, you don't eat out. And then you budget. Like if you can hide all that behind minimalism much of what Haley was saying, like you lock it behind one key term kind of used to lock in your market, it's fine. But in your marketing, if you go up to somebody and you're like, Oh, I help people pay off debt, and I like how and it's like, well, I help them pay off debt through like shopping coupon clipping minimalism, selling things on Facebook marketplace, selling things on Craigslist, and then like, you list out all these things. There's like the transformation becomes muddled. Yeah. Right. And so the transformation needs to be very clear. And so the the bad ideas don't have a clear transformation. One clear path. Yes. Okay. But the good ideas have a clear transformation. And one clear,

Hayley Johnson:

yes. And I think a lot of people will have exactly what Doug is the opposite of what you're saying, you know, they'll have I teach people to this is a good idea. We've had a student that is wildly successful, teaching people how to what to pay off their debt, or you know, build a savings account and basically get in a better financial place through minimalism. We have a couple students that do that. But that's my point. We have a couple student, there's a lot of people that do that. And so you might do your due diligence research. And you might see that there are a lot of people doing that. Yes, that shouldn't stop you. Because that's like another huge thing. Yeah. Then you'll be like, Okay, I need to this person is already doing that. They're already doing it through minimalism. So I need to add a bunch of other stuff on there. No, no, no, this is where your content needs to stand and speak for itself. Yeah, and that's a whole other thing, too, is that but I had to throw that in there because they will say, Well, I found that you know, so you need

Doug Johnson:

your content, basically to be able to help your personality stand out because minimalism to one person might mean one thing to them, but another thing to you. And so when you talk the way you talk the way you emphasize certain things and minimalism or whatever Maybe if it's like budgeting or things like that, like some people might say, you know, I help women or help moms to be able to get out of debt in 60 days or less through spreadsheets. Yeah. And like or budgeting. And so some people do budgeting on paper, some people do budgeting on spreadsheets. Yeah. So that's a clear difference, too, when coming up with your ideas, which is why we say like, you have to solve a specific problem for a specific person in a specific way.

Hayley Johnson:

Yeah, and the way cannot, this is another huge thing that you did touch on, but so important, you guys, the way that you help them, you should boldly proclaim that this is the best, and the most efficient way everybody else teaches you, you know, because you don't want to be vanilla, you have to stand for something and stand against something else to show that you are authentic. This is why we preach, we don't like ebooks, you know, we don't like low low ticket courses, we don't like things that you just hop on, you know, like planners and stuff like that, or, I mean, nothing's wrong with that, like, you can still sell those things. But it should be an intro to your bigger product to your funnel.

Doug Johnson:

So there's a whole strategy into your like money making,

Hayley Johnson:

no and so we boldly proclaim, like, that is not the way that we help you way. That's not the system. Yeah. And so you guys have to, really, because a lot of people are scared to offend, not even offend, they're scared to push away potential leads or potential followers by latching on to a belief like, you know, and really boldly proclaiming that, but that is what's gonna get you sales, because you are authentic now. Yeah, you know, and you're also not seen, like I said, as a jack of all trades. Yeah, you're really knowledgeable on that one way that you do it, you know?

Doug Johnson:

Yep, definitely. So let's shift shift a little bit, because we are talking about like, the, you know, the, the idea and, you know, being too confusing with those kinds of things. Confusion can also happen when you're vague.

Hayley Johnson:

Oh, yeah. And so this was like, trying to be, this is the opposite. This isn't like trying to choose specific

Doug Johnson:

and too many things in too many ways. And too confusing, right? But now we have too vague as one of the other big red flags that people have. Okay. And so it's like, I have to, I have to tread carefully here, right? But when you say things, like, and I'm just gonna make some blankets, weird, you know, ideas that are here, my course ideas, right? Like, you know, I help dads feel fulfilled, or, like, I help dads with mindset, you know, have a better mindset. It's like,

Hayley Johnson:

you're onto something you're going usually better actually is moms. I help moms. I know. But I got the idea. Because we've had a lot of people say, I want to do mom mindset. And I'm not saying you can't, but that's just the beginning. Like, I want to help moms

Doug Johnson:

that is like, you know, there's microscopic tip of it. You're like, oh, you know, ice cube in the water that's over there. But below it is like a 5000 ton iceberg of additional stuff, you need to build on top of that idea. Right, like, So, being vague, or it's a very, like, open ended subjective transformation that can happen. Okay, you know, like, feeling better? Yeah, feeling something where it's like, it's, people can't clearly grasp what's going to happen, right? So, yeah, being vague with like, how that how you're gonna help them with mindset, or what that is, it's rough. So what you need to do is you need to add on ways that you help with their mindset. Yes. Okay. So like, I help moms have a better mindset through daily planning, or something like that, right? Or I help moms feel more accomplished through journaling, something something

Hayley Johnson:

specific, something specific, again, super important, because you always have to relate to it. Like how can I get leads? Like, how can I go viral? And how can I grow my audience? So you could have a winning course idea, but if the way that you help them? Nobody searches for that? Yes. Then just forget it. Like you. I don't care how much you like it. You got to do ads, then. And we aren't a big yeah, there's no, there's no

Doug Johnson:

demand for the way the way that you're doing it, then that's

Hayley Johnson:

right. So like, for instance, back to the spreadsheet thing. Nobody wants to do spreadsheets on Excel. Yeah, I mean, some people do, but it'll be hard to get paid. Yeah, you do. But like most people that are moms if it was a mom type of thing, you just know, even though I do it this way, it's best that I learned self away that is very popular, right? Yes. And I want to make it easy to get paid

Doug Johnson:

you do you want to sound do you want to make it easy to get paid and found but you also want to do it in a way that is different than what most people have probably tried. Yes, that's important. Yeah. Because most people have done spreadsheets. Most people know spreadsheets and spreadsheets are too complicated. It's too complicated. It's too much to do. Not everybody likes numbers. Yeah. And so sometimes it's easier to do something complete opposite like envelope method or whatever it might be. Yeah, no, but it's the same no matter what type of topic you try to place yourself into. So if it is like mom mindset or dad entrepreneurs or something i

Hayley Johnson:

It's usually like I teach bombs or men I don't know number one ever says dads actually it's so rare. I follow like a couple dads account, and they're like save your sons highly recommend love it. That's very controversial. I think nowadays stupid but highly recommend but I love it. cuz it's for dads and it's like so rare. But it's always for mom. So like a good one as an example is like we've had a lot of people say to us, well, I want to teach moms how to make money online. I'm like, Hey, how do you do it? But since they don't do it full time, and that is the best way that they can start I'm not saying you have to do something full time in order to teach chicks you don't you can teach beginners how to get started. But they'll say okay, well I've done MLM MLM I shouldn't say that. Network Marketing. I have no shade against network marketing, but, you know, network marketing it, I could teach them how to grow an Instagram accounts. They got like, I don't know, 5000 followers. You know, I've been doing that for a couple years. What else? Mom's typical ways moms make money online. Oh, like I could teach people to sell things in their houses. Sell things just saw. Yeah. thrift stores. I'm like, You need to pick one. Yeah, yeah. But they're like, Yeah, but and this is what happens every time we have it. I'm not doing this full time. Like, how can I just pick one, I'm not that good. I'm like, well, it's better to get better at that. And teach it and increase the price as you actually get better and do this as a full time thing or whatever become more experienced, then not get any sales and not grow? Because you're confusing people. Because like Tuesday, you talk about thrifting and flipping Wednesday, you're talking about network marketing. Yeah. So

Doug Johnson:

what happened? That's worse than being vague. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, they're both pretty bad. But the thing is, is that like, the problem is, is that when you start picking a bunch of different things like that, and you start doing that the core problem behind that is because you feel like imposter imposter. And so when people feel impostor about their topic, they feel like the way to make people believe me, it's just a stack shit on top of it. Like just throw stuff on there. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what people think. 800 core 100 lessons, I can help you 725 different ways extra bonus material, the hours of you watching me color on paper or something? Yeah, just all the random stuff, right that people throw in there. Because they think that's valid. Like

Hayley Johnson:

you don't only just get the course you get this, this, or someone knows that they're they feel that they're an impostor, that is their identity. So then what happens also is they will stack stuff like this, if it is a course. But they'll say, okay, so I'll teach you all these ways to make money as a mom, and then I'll do one to one coaching with you like as if that's going to help make their offer better.

Doug Johnson:

So yeah, we don't wanna get too much into offer making we're so on the topic, right? It's kind of the same thing. We're getting there. But the thing is, is that the way you solve that is one, you have to train yourself to know that you don't need to have 800 different things. Yeah, to be an expert on something, right? If a mom comes to you, or is going to stick with them on topic, sentence moms, but if a mom came to Haley and was like, teach me how to make money online, I don't know how to do and you're like, Okay, awesome. Have you ever sold things on? You've ever like flip stuff in your house on Facebook marketplace? And they're like, No, and you're like, perfect, I'll show you how to do that. Even if you're making 500 bucks a month doing that? Yeah, it's more dollars than what the mom that doesn't know anything is making. Yeah, totally. And so yeah, so then you have that imposter. But like, people don't even know how to don't know how to how to even get started. People don't know how to log on to facebook marketplace to sell anything. They don't want to listen, it's

Hayley Johnson:

just that you're you in your head, you know, of all these top dogs and all of these different categories. You're like, Well, I'm not them. But again, you can't compare yourself to that to compare yourself. If you are at beginner near beginner level to like a person that's going to beginner, they don't even know what the heck the industry is about or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Doug Johnson:

Okay. So I would say those are some of the biggest red flags that we have. People are too vague with their idea and they don't, they haven't don't have an idea fleshed out or anything right? Or people can't explain their idea because it's too complicated and too confusing. Okay, but there are other things that people need to think about when it comes to picking a good course idea, a good coaching program idea or good informational product idea, right? So one of those things is, is that they need to pick an idea that matches their goals and their lifestyle. Yeah, this is so huge. Okay, like you people don't talk about that. Yeah. So so this is like the hidden secrets of of making money. I would say sanity and happiness. Yes, sanity and happiness to right. Because here's the thing, when you pick your idea, there are ways that you have to use that idea to make money. Okay, so you have to basically choose one of two paths. You're either going to be like an influencer style topic, where you're always posting on social media. You have to be kind of like an influencer to get lots of people for your topic that's there because your topic might be low price or something or you're not like an influencer, you're not posting all the time as a lifestyle but maybe you're running it more like a business and you're doing more coaching on things or stuff like that. So when you pick your idea, right, Haley, like you have to choose. My topic has to line up with what level of sanity Yes, this

Hayley Johnson:

is like, oh my gosh, life changing. I know. Like we're I'm tooting our own horn but it's more of just like life changing for me because we've gone through the wringer with learning this as a family trying to homeschool over the last however many years I've been doing social media full time, and then doing it with me. It's like if I had known that what I was signing up for when choosing a course Topic, it's not so much the question like, do I have a good topic? It's like, do I have a good topic that will sell? Yes is very important. But is it going to sell in the way that I want to get sales? Like the best thing you could ever ask yourself, if you are wise with are not that we're wise, but you know, we're Why isn't the fact that we've lived a lot of years in online business. And the biggest revelation we've ever learned through hardship is, how do I even explain like how you make your money is more important than making the money? Because it dictates your happiness? How much freedom you have with your family? What else?

Doug Johnson:

Yep. And so yeah, that dictates your time, and you grow fast you grow. And it also dictates what you do as like work. Yeah. And

Hayley Johnson:

it's a double edged sword. Because we used to always pick the best course idea. That's the most lucrative, right, because it's like, you know, when you go into business, you want to be like, logical, you want to do everything with facts and numbers behind it, because you're taking risks on your family. And you're investing money that maybe you don't have, like we had before. And so you're like, I'm not going to choose what's the happiest path, which I should have. But I didn't know like hindsight. Advice, right? Because you got to sacrifice, you have to sacrifice and you got to do the most lucrative thing. So can you explain like, so? I would say it's a difference between like marketing, like how hard you want to market and spend your time doing that? Yeah.

Doug Johnson:

Yeah. Yeah. So basically, what that to try to summarize this point, which is obviously a part of PowerPoint that hits home for us quite a bit. Yeah. Is that you might pick a topic. Okay, that requires mass. Audience mass, volume, mass volume, okay, because lower priced views, lots of page views, lots of explanation. Lots of followers, lots of content, lots,

Hayley Johnson:

can you explain again, like really hit it like, because it's not worth a lot in people's eyes? As far as value?

Doug Johnson:

Yes. And so so. So this is kind of how it works. If you have a topic that the definite like the defined outcome, the transformation is not clear. Or it's clear, but it just their return on investment is not that so like,

Hayley Johnson:

I'll help you organize your home? Yes,

Doug Johnson:

I mean, I'm going to be I'll be we'll try to make this super clear. Okay. It's like, I'm going to teach you how to watercolor for okay. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with these. No, there's totally lucrative watercolor is totally fine. One of the people that sells on on teachable does watercolor, right? And she teaches added watercolor, one of our students teaches squash, which is a funny wash painting, which is a way of doing it right. The thing is, is that because it's a lower price, and people pay a lower price, because what can I do with really painting other than, like, feel good that I painted feel good that I accomplished something? I'm not going to turn into like an art studio, I'm not going to turn into some artists to make a living off of painting. If it's a one on one class, then you need mass volume for in order to hit big numbers. Yes. Right. So in order

Hayley Johnson:

are some art, people that charge an arm and a leg teach you because there's that good yet again, you have to evaluate yourself and your own level of experience, correct? Yes. So So even those people need a massive audience to attract the people that are willing to spend three grand with Yes,

Doug Johnson:

yes. Because it's such a broad thing. Like just painting. Yeah, right. Painting is such a broad thing. So instead of being more like business savvy with it, you have to be more like how do I just get lots of people in front of like eyeballs in front of my stuff? Yeah, savvy. So you end up posting yourself painting all the time. And you know, talking about all the different painting stuff that you can and the lifestyle becomes more influencer based. Yeah. And then you have to drive pageviews to a passive passive course. Yeah, right. So just the same.

Hayley Johnson:

So to be more specific to I know, it's obvious Well, influencer base means you're on Instagram and doing reels and YouTube videos. People don't know what they're signing up for. I did not diagnose because he saw me and he's, you know, starting his own thing now. But yeah, he definitely knows, but most people don't. They're like, Oh, I can post reels every day. But it's not so much that it's like you have to have massive volume again. So you need to just not post a real day, if it's not growing you fast enough, it's gonna take years, you know, and even once you have a big audience, you might just make 100 200 grand, like, there's this feeling,

Doug Johnson:

you need to keep going and keep going, keep going. Now, on the flip side of that, if you were to pick a topic that is a higher return on investment, okay, it's for a more specific person. It is something that is not I don't want to say like surface level, but it is it isn't a surface level, it solves a very specific problem for a very specific person, then what you end up doing is you can price it higher, and you focus less on the going viral aspect. Yeah, focus less on the views, you focus you get less on the social media, and you focus more on the, like personal connections that you can build with people. Yeah, and you focus more on results results and DMing and talking to people and potentially even coaching and I hate to bring the beginning but not forever. Yeah, cuz some people get scared whenever I say the word coaching and they turn off a podcast Yeah, or whatever.

Hayley Johnson:

But really, like as a side note, I do have to put this in years people just don't know and I didn't either. That when we say just because Do you do something that's not low ticket and we say low ticket, it's like $97 190 $7, like his watercolour painting, the flip side is what he's talking about, or what a lot of sorry, right? But a lot of you guys might automatically go to the place in your mind where like, oh, they want us to do one on one coaching. That's what he's talking about? No. So we're saying that you could that that could be one of the ways but what you guys probably don't know. And like I said I did it is that you can outsource the one to one aspect of your program through coaches that you hire. So this is where you start to be like, Whoa, that's a business. Okay, so like I teach women how to lose weight postpartum by whatever your special method is, you know, you can sell that as a low ticket course for $97. One, whatever 997 on carrots, like you're not gonna make a ton. Or you can turn it into a now this isn't a marketing machine that you're creating, you're creating an online business, which they build their businesses, but this is more of a like, let's get people real results and word of mouth marketing. And it's our business is built on this now. We've done both, okay, so I've gone viral for years. And it's headless chicken rat race, you can't be present parent Mr. Wheel, and Doug's starting to do it, because you still need to get started. But also, on the flip side, what he's saying is a real, you know, a really profitable business in a really short timespan. And so yes, you might have to bite the bullet and do the coaching. But I do want you guys to know that you can eventually have coaches that do this for you and become more passive. Yeah, the idea is, is I don't want you to think that all you do is tack on one on one coach. Oh,

Doug Johnson:

that's not that's not the answer. But sometimes involvement was you is what's required to get like a certain return on investment that people would pay for. Yeah, especially if you don't have the X Yes, to an extent, like to a certain point. But what we're trying to get out here is that depending upon how you want to live your life, do you want to live in a more business oriented lifestyle where you're a little bit more intentional with people? Or maybe you manage people instead? Like, do I manage a team that that coaches or do I manage? Or do I manage social media,

Hayley Johnson:

but also food? Food? Yeah, food for thought, oh, my gosh, I think it's, like straight up. I forget, she's like, I have no idea what mistakes I made you lately. Okay. So food for thought, though, one of the one thing with the second idea that we're now talking about, like the legit that they're both legit businesses, you can both make seven figures. Plus, with the second example, what we're saying is, it can be extremely profitable really, really fast. So you can make seven figures in a year. Whereas the first one, you need to be having a million followers, you need to be posting all the time. 24/7 You can't be like, I want to be a present homeschool mom and still make a million dollars. It's nearly impossible. I've never seen anyone do it. Because you're not, you know, yeah.

Doug Johnson:

It's just hard. It's hard to blow up like that so quickly and be able to hit it's a unicorn and it numbers at such a rapid rate. Yeah, you know,

Hayley Johnson:

so yes, the second one is more scary. You have to face your imposter syndrome to make gobs of money, like we're talking about. Because you can you can it's possible, but you need to face yourself in the mirror and say, I lack the skills and I'm gonna go learn these skills. Yeah. You because it probably does require you to learn skills that you don't have. It does, but it could pretend but maybe you're good. Yeah, maybe you're really good. When people are okay, go ahead.

Doug Johnson:

Okay, so we're gonna stop yelling at you guys at this point. I'm just kidding. I don't think so. Okay. So I want to I want to touch on this before we wrap up this podcast, but I do want to touch on this when you're picking a topic. Yeah, right. Haley and I have talked about this a lot. And it's there's actually an entire holder podcast about it. But when people are going through and they have what they think is a good idea or a bad idea. A lot of people think a good idea has to be something that they're passionate about. Oh, yeah. Well, we

Hayley Johnson:

did a whole thing. Passion versus profit. Yes.

Doug Johnson:

So when people come to you, what what do you feel like as a coach, you know, when somebody's super hyped on something, and they come to you, and they're passionate about it, but it's not like a good idea.

Hayley Johnson:

Well, how bad do you want the money? Because you can listen, Doug knows. Look at my background, we're not gonna even address it my background. Doug's taken over the podcast. So this looks like I don't even know like, you can't see what's behind me. Okay, I'm on a tangent, but it's very masculine. There's a lot of hobbyists stuff guys got like, you can't see but it's like Japan in the rain. You'd have that on their phone. Yeah. Japanese. He's a hobbyist. Okay, this is my point here. This makes sense. There's a Japanese Skyline like what is this thing called? Desk map? He's all about that picture on our okay, I'm looking at a stack of four wheel is this wheels or tires? Well, they're both its wheels and wheels and tires. Like my leg could touch them. What else is behind me? I don't even know what's why me.

Doug Johnson:

racing simulator.

Hayley Johnson:

So the Euro headset is my thing when someone's like, I love to talk about doggies and how to groom them. Usually I say llama. Anyway. I can't with it. Why I like to talk about grooming dogs. And I'm like, Okay, you could be so good. I've met some I'm not laughing on dog grooming. It's it could be sweet. Didn't you talk to him? They need to like made a ton of money like grooming dogs and breeding dogs breeds

Doug Johnson:

dogs. Oh, no, no, I'm gonna Yeah, no, she's gonna be like, really?

Hayley Johnson:

Anyways, so you could have something that not a lot of people would pay much for, you know, they might pay 100 bucks. And I'm like, well, and they're like, I really want to do this, but also I lost my job and I'm gonna like be on the street. I'm like, listen, like, I get it. And this hasn't necessarily happened. Maybe I don't know, a lot of things happen to us, but, like with Doug's hobbies, okay, he's a hobbyist. So he's the first person to tell you that you don't have money for your hobbies. You can't do your passion, your true passion and doing your true passion you can I don't have this I'm I don't have what he has like the hobbyist, I don't know kind of personality. I like just business and like be with my kids. But you don't have money for your hobbies. If you're not making money. Yep. So and is posting about your passion, doing your passion. Lots of Jen's ears would say no, I know. They love to say that. Do not make us monetize our hobby, our passion monetize, it just depends. If it's a good one, then do it. Here's the thing. Okay, there's a difference, but you wouldn't have this money for all the things that you love if I didn't do the hard work doing something else. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. So you can have both Yeah, but you need to have the delayed gratification. You do

Doug Johnson:

need to have delayed gratification. But here's another point that people miss. Okay, there's a true difference between hobbies and passions. Okay, I don't even know, this is a difference that there's there. Okay. Like you guys can't see it. But I'm pointing out like keyboards that are here that I have that I've built keyboards, that's a hobby that I have. Now we're getting Alexa like that, you know, a passion is when like, you eat sleep drives true dream,

Hayley Johnson:

you're not doing that keyboard, you're

Doug Johnson:

wildly massively obsessed with things. This is like you find people on the street and you're like, Yo, do you know about these keyboards? And but you're not like No, I'm not like that one's come racing and cars racing and cars. Yes, I am like that. And so you have to think to yourself, if you are going to monetize a passion, one yes. Like, does it allow? Like, are your kids gonna go starving? The don't do that thing. Like don't do

Hayley Johnson:

or just like, do it later. Do a little later. You can have both one day see if you're if

Doug Johnson:

you're if your kids are starving, don't do whatever you're passionate about do and

Hayley Johnson:

they don't have to be starving. Okay? Like, you know, you have to be like, you know, you got to be in a pretty decent my mom would say shut up a creek. Race is going. Yeah. And we've been in those.

Doug Johnson:

Yes. Yeah, they've been there. Okay. But this is the thing is that, like, if you have a true passion, and I'm going to blame the will blame the Gen Z years here, I will put them back in the spotlight. If it is a true passion, you will never lose passion for it. Oh, yeah, I can talk about it. And you can do those things. And you can lucrative if it's a good idea. Yeah, I was gonna say Hopis if it makes money. And that is the that's at the end of the day. So we have people that come to us. And they're like, I cannot I am so passionate. I love this. And I love this. And I love this. And we always come back to like, Okay, how much money? Do you mean? How much and how much do you need to make? Like, I need $10,000 Tomorrow, and I'm like, you cannot talk about cat stickers. Like I'm so sorry that you can't do it. Like it's better than doggies. Okay? It's a better example. But that is that is one thing that you guys have to think about. Okay, there's a whole other podcast, you could check it out on the Digital Income family podcast, which on YouTube, and you could check it out on Spotify and Apple Oh, passion versus niche? Yes, our passion project versus profit podcast, you can go check that out and go check out all the other episodes while you're there. Yes. And while you're there, you can leave us reviews too, on Apple podcasts doing lots of other things. I feel like this should have led you guys in some way to understand the difference between like a good idea and a bad idea. Yes. And if anything, we just shut on bad ideas.

Hayley Johnson:

And honestly, we should do a podcast on how to create an offer because you have to have a good idea. based off of how much money you want to make and the lifestyle you want to live two huge things how much money you want to make. Is it possible with going viral? These are the lifestyles to going viral needing those views all the time? Or are you willing to face yourself in the mirror get better at the things you lack and build a legit business that requires humans not just an iPhone? Yeah, so So we'll do that offer?

Doug Johnson:

I think I'm pretty ended up if you guys want that. Let us know. You know, you could put a comment down in YouTube if you guys are watching on YouTube or you could DM us or something like that to let us know what else you want to be able to hear when it comes to the course creation stuff. Haley got any closing thoughts on this one?

Hayley Johnson:

No, it's just like there's the idea and there's the offer and so we needed to give them that.

Doug Johnson:

Okay, we'll jump into that on next one. But for now, that's it. Thanks so much, guys for listening, and we'll see you on the next one. Bye guys.